3109: Dehumidifier
| Dehumidifier |
 Title text: It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits. |
Explanation
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This explanation is incomplete: This page was created WITHOUT INTERNET ACCESS. Don't remove this notice too soon. If you can fix this issue, edit the page! |
In this comic, Randall mocks the recent trend of various appliances, such as induction stoves or juicers, that traditionally do not require an internet connection to work, being connected to the internet. A dehumidifier has a relatively simple function which does not obviously offer any possibility for improvements to its operation that could be achieved without changes to its hardware, so it's unclear what benefit being able to receive updates via the internet would confer. Cueball's sarcastic reply underlines the unlikeliness of a situation occurring where an update would be necessary. The implication is that many of these internet-connected devices are examples of over-engineering a solution to do things 'because we can' or because it makes it sound advanced to the customer, rather than because it offers any real added value.
The title text says that authorized internet access is required to patch remote exploits (i.e. harmful unauthorized access from the internet). If this is the only use case that requires internet access, it would be much simpler to remove the attack vector for remote exploits by not having it connected to the internet in the first place. It is conceivably possible that remote access could be attained with a carefully crafted atmosphere, but seems unlikely. But more particularly, the most likely source of remote access, even given a different case for internet access, would probably be the remote updater itself.
A related device was previously refered to in 3044: Humidifier Review, and the issue of possibly considering online protection of devices that (arguably) should not be so easily exploitable was looked at in 463: Voting Machines.
Transcript
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This transcript is incomplete: Don't remove this notice too soon. If you can fix this issue, edit the page! |
- [A salesman is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it.]
- Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
- Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.
Trivia
Technically, there are many different kinds of liquid water, based on the possible isotopes of hydrogen and oxygen atoms that its molecules are composed of. There are 3 naturally-occurring isotopes of hydrogen, with 6 possible combinations for its two atoms in a water molecule, and 4 naturally-occurring isotopes of oxygen. This gives 6 × 4 = 24 kinds of naturally-occurring water molecules, which could be present in liquid water in any proportions, although 99.7% of all such molecules will be the 'normal' version of water. (The isotopic ratios in "natural" water are relatively stable, so there's very little variation in water found in nature.) There are also synthetic isotopes of each, all radioactive, most having short half-lives. How many of these could be used to constitute water would depend in part on one's definition of whether a molecule of water could be said to have been formed prior to the decay of its constituent atoms. Each isotopically-distinct version of water has very slightly different physical and chemical properties, though the differences are small and the versions hard to separate. There are also 26 known phases of ice (solid water), each of which could be made from any combination of the isotopically-distinct versions of water in any proportions.
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Having network access can have some use for a dehumidifier, e.g. to remotely set the target humidity level, or get notifications when the water tank needs to get emptied. But having devices that depend on a specific app or a vendor-provided remote service risks having a useless device after a while ... --134.102.219.31 13:19, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- Humidifiers typically have a physical control to set a target humidity level, and even the most basic models turn off when the water tank gets full. Since humans can't really tell the difference between 40-60%, which is the range of most humidifiers, there is no need for a remote control to change the humidity levels on a machine. As for the water tank, regular use of the humidifier will teach the user about how long it can run before turning off and needing to be emptied. 136.62.110.93 (talk) 13:58, 30 June 2025 (UTC) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
- Though there might be a device that attempts to do both jobs, note that this is a dehumidifier (as you functionally refer to) and not necessarily also a capable humidifier (as you namechecked it). 92.23.2.228 17:53, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- uh, I forgot the leading 'de' . we're currently dealing with a semi-functional a/c unit in our business warehouse/office space. having to keep running the DEhumidifier to keep the temp reasonable during work hours. not enough condensate capacity to run over night, so it shuts off after about 10-12 hours. at least it runs on simple mechanical controls with no reliance on wi-fi 13:40, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- i had a good laugh at this comic, as i am designing dehumidifiers and they include wireless connectivity.....but there are reasons for this. But is more for monitoring, like e.g. in a water damage case the resoration company can see if the room is dry without having a technician drive to the location.
- Though there might be a device that attempts to do both jobs, note that this is a dehumidifier (as you functionally refer to) and not necessarily also a capable humidifier (as you namechecked it). 92.23.2.228 17:53, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- this comic will end up on our wall, together with xkcd:242 The Difference--
84.46.99.18 06:41, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
"if they discover a new kind of water" - There are several varieties of heavy water (common Hydrogen deuterium, tritium; common oxygen, various other isotopes), not to mention several [wiki:Phases of ice|phases of ice]. 64.201.132.210 20:31, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- I restored the part about phases of ice, because dehumidifiers do deal with ice (when icing up, and if the ambient temperature gets low). Mostly put it back because I thought a mention of ice-nine would be fun. 2600:387:4:803:0:0:0:B2 20:42, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
Is the salesman Hairy? Seems similar but not quite enough hair, I'm not sure who he's supposed to be --Darth Vader (talk) 21:17, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
hydrogen peroxide.--me, hi (talk) 01:12, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's made of the same elements, but it isn't water. BunsenH (talk) 02:29, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- still liquid. --me, hi (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- Hydrogen peroxide is not to be confused with Dihydrogen Monoxide --134.102.219.31 11:30, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- "Two guys walk into a bar. One says, 'I'll have H₂O.' The other says, 'I'll have H₂O too.' The second guy dies.", Anonymous --Ptdecker66 (talk) 14:10, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
Ice-nine is mentioned once in the trivia section. Did the user that added that mean to say ice-IX, were they unaware that ice-nine is fictional, or was it meant to be a joke? I thought that any "jokes" in the explanation were supposed to be technically factual, such as adding [citation needed] to a plainly obvious statement. Please forgive me for asking this stupid question. 47.14.13.170 01:22, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
I just mentioned acoustic-based/light-based attack vectors and that patches might circumvent them. I've heard of them used against other devices, but never against a dehumidifier. Citation needed? 181.214.218.75 17:36, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
NOTE: water molecules do NOT exchange hydrogen ATOMS. atoms contain both protons and electrons. even your reference states that water molecules exchange PROTONS, not atoms. 2607:fb90:8a91:4e30:3c86:6f12:78c6:fe52 (talk) 00:30, 2 July 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
Does it at least support water conservation? StapleFreeBatteries (talk) 06:06, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- It probably supports water conversation, at the very least. 92.23.2.228 18:18, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
Improving the functioning of a dehumidifier does not require a new type of water. It could for example have a variable speed motor and prop-expansion valve. It is impossible to explore the full range of possible operations, so continuing engineering may be able to find better ways to operate the hardware without alterations. I worked on industrial equipment; we would routinely rollout software upgrades that would tweak a few percent improvement in installed equipment. 76.180.44.2 16:35, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
I can't make much sense of the new "Yet there is a method" paragraph. It seems to be saying that if programmability was added to absolutely everything, stuff could be done with it, but probably not very much. It's kind of like saying that if vitamins were added to absolutely everything, you could get some more nutrition by chewing on random objects in addition to the food you eat. It's a somewhat weaker argument than the usual "citation needed". BunsenH (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
- That's the only idea i currently have about benefits of Wi-Fi in dehumidifier - it has no benefits for it's intended function, but does benefits for it's undocumented functions. Such smart devices can work as weak-ish computers with programmability; not very much - but they're already in your house, so you're getting that as a bonus - and you likely have many such devices in home, so they could be assembled into actually strong computation network. --SMGmsgsgd (talk) 13:45, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
- I'm still not seeing it. Exactly the same argument could be made for adding computational power to anything: shoes, printed books, squirrels, bananas, etc. It isn't an argument for adding such abilities to a dehumidifier in particular. BunsenH (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
- I just think it's all rather irrelevent, that bit. Some (separate) instances of what uses a wifi (or mobile-internet) connection could convey, and perhaps how they can be subverted, managed to get rolled into this. But some of it seems to be aimed at subverting the owner's expectations, some aimed at subverting the manufacturer's intended uses, etc, and all it really shows is that something that probably doesn't need an internet connection and reprogrammable firmware probbly would be best off without it. The paragrah has grown, admittedly with my own input (or corrective edits) as two parts of that, and probably could do with a good looking at to make sure that it has a more focused message. Or is perhaps split up into several seperately more focussed paragraphs that each is more narratively self-consistent. OTOH, I'm also not sure that anything would be lost by deleting it, perhaps remembering some few aspects of it as minor edits to other bits. 92.23.2.228 18:50, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
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- I just think it's all rather irrelevent, that bit. Some (separate) instances of what uses a wifi (or mobile-internet) connection could convey, and perhaps how they can be subverted, managed to get rolled into this. But some of it seems to be aimed at subverting the owner's expectations, some aimed at subverting the manufacturer's intended uses, etc, and all it really shows is that something that probably doesn't need an internet connection and reprogrammable firmware probbly would be best off without it. The paragrah has grown, admittedly with my own input (or corrective edits) as two parts of that, and probably could do with a good looking at to make sure that it has a more focused message. Or is perhaps split up into several seperately more focussed paragraphs that each is more narratively self-consistent. OTOH, I'm also not sure that anything would be lost by deleting it, perhaps remembering some few aspects of it as minor edits to other bits. 92.23.2.228 18:50, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
- I'm still not seeing it. Exactly the same argument could be made for adding computational power to anything: shoes, printed books, squirrels, bananas, etc. It isn't an argument for adding such abilities to a dehumidifier in particular. BunsenH (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
