3081: PhD Timeline

PhD Timeline

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Title text: Rümeysa Öztürk was grabbed off the street in my town one month ago.

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Clicking on the image on xkcd.com takes you to Surveillance video shows Tufts University student Rumeysa Ozturk apprehended in Somerville, MA on YouTube.

Explanation

This explanation is incomplete: You might want to copy text over from the Wikipedia page, but keep in mind this wiki's main goal is to explain the comic. Don't remove this notice too soon. If you can fix this issue, edit the page!

This comic presents a typical Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) timeline, with a twist. Typically a Ph.D. is broken into a number of steps, from enrollment through to thesis defense. However, in this case, the timeline takes an unexpected turn when, instead of publishing the thesis, the candidate is detained by masked government agents. While this may seem like an unlikely event, it happened to Rümeysa Öztürk, a Turkish Ph.D. student at Tufts University who was abruptly detained by six masked U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents in Somerville, MA while walking to an iftar dinner. Subsequently, she was transported to Vermont and then to a detention facility in Louisiana before a court ordered that she not be removed from Massachusetts.

The reason given for her detention was that her F-1 student visa was revoked due to, according to a Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, her alleged activities in support of the foreign terrorist organization Hamas on the campus of Tufts. Aside from her being co-author of an article in a student newspaper which was critical of her university's response towards protests against the ongoing Gaza genocide, no evidence of support for Hamas has been provided. Ordinarily, revocation of a visa is not, of itself, grounds for detention; that would merely prevent one from reentering the country if one left.

At the time of this comic's publication, the US government had recently canceled the visas of over 1,000 foreign students and scholars. This was done with minimal or no explanation and no warning. The U.S. government can cancel a visa if the subject's activities are harmful to U.S. foreign policy interests, though the threat of a visa being revoked has a chilling effect on speech, which is protected by USA's First Amendment.

The title text says that Somerville is also where Randall Munroe lives.

For a more detailed account, see Detention of Rümeysa Öztürk on Wikipedia.

Transcript

[A chart shows the typical events in a research program. At the top there is a dotted line. There is a title above the line and the line is labeled with text in the middle breaking the line:]

US PH.D. PROGRAM TIMELINE

–––––––ENROLLMENT–––––––––

[The dotted line aligns with the top of an Y-axis with 7 ticks, the top tick on level with the dotted line. There are seven labels from top towards the bottom, not written near specifik ticks, and with uneven distance. Between each of the labels there is an arrow from the one above pointing the the next. To the right of the first five labels there is a split up rectangle, that are closed at the top , but open at the bottom. Down through the middle part it is split up in two along a kind of S-shape going a bit up from left to right. There is a gab between the top and bottom part of this figure along this s-shape. Both top and bottom part has a label. All text and other parts of the comic has been in black until this. But the last two labels near the Y-axis beneath where the rectangular figure stops, which are still written in black, have been crossed out with red squiggly lines, both the two small arrows and the text. From the label above those crossed out, there goes a red arrow down and then to the right. This point to another red label next to and right of the first of the two that has been crossed out. From beneath this another red arrow point to a second red label, next to the the last of the two that was crossed out. A third red arrow goes beneath this to a final red label.]

Meet with Advisor

Research Proposal

Qualifying Exams

Purpose Dissertation

Research and Write dissertation

[The above is the labels near the rectangular figure to the right with the following labels:]

Coursework

Research

[The final two labels that have been crossed out with red lines:]

Submit dissertation

Defend dissertation

[The new labels written to the right with red:]

Get grabbed off the sidewalk outside of your home by masked government agents

Be whisked out of the state before a judge has time to intervene

????

Trivia

This is the second comic referring to what is happening in the US after Donald Trump became president. The first comic was 3073: Tariffs.

References

This explanation is incomplete: On this, wiki, we do not use references. We only link the cited source in the sentence that needs sourcing itself. For more info, see this section of the Editor FAQ. Please move these links inside the explanation and remove this section. If you can fix this issue, edit the page!

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Discussion

What an age we live in... --DollarStoreBa'al ^{ConverseMy life choices} 15:48, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

It only gets rougher... It's enough to radicalize a person. 172.69.65.187 16:09, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

When even Randall starts freaking out, it usually indicates the most entertaining timeline. 162.158.245.161 00:58, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I will only grant this only if we have a happy outcome for all the people already damaged by your current government. I look forward to Nazis getting punched and the Ark of the Covenant being opened Kev (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Pretty sure this is a happy outcome for everyone who voted for this. 172.68.159.201 21:29, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Tell that to the naturalized Venezualians that was expelled first. That voting block largely voted Trump. 162.158.103.24 14:50, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Terrorist gang members voted for their own deportation? ^{[citation needed]} 162.158.112.186 21:55, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Events like this are scary, and they're even scarier if you have a personal or geographic connection to them like Randall does. I can understand why he would feel frustrated about his inability to do something concrete, and if this comic raises awareness for the situation then it has done a good thing. Not sure why I thought this comment was necessary; maybe it's just a way of processing the emotions that the comic made me feel. Dextrous Fred (talk) 15:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Agree, those of us that are non-US look to the US to uphold human rights. Very sad. Kev (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

A misplaced sentiment. As bitter as it is to say, it's clear the US doesn't care for human rights anymore. The CDC is plastering some bullshit about gender ideology on the page for HIV, immigrants can be dragged off for no reason, the DoD is literally erasing history from their website and only put it back after people got mad...172.69.70.115 12:00, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I dont want to start an argument, but I am glad Randall Munroe is making a specific, reasonable point. A lot of times I see people saying either "there is no antisemitism on campus, nobody should ever get deported, ACTUAL terrorists should get green cards", and others say "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME SHOULD GET DEPORTED, EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A TERRORIST." I think both of them are extreme points obviously, and I am glad Randall is just taking the side, for now, of "this specific person did not violate their green card visa."

"...EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A TERRORIST." That are literally the words that a Trump official was reported to have said. If you protest the actions they take against anyone they label as a terrorit, YOU will be treated as a supporter of terrorism. These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For (talk) 23:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi, expert-on-the-Öztürk-case but not-an-immigration-expert-really here. For clarity, Öztürk held an F-1 student visa but was not a lawful permanent resident (LPR) (green card holder), unlike the similar case of Mahmoud Khalil (Columbia university) who was a green card holder. And "green card visa" is not a thing, there's a "green card," which you cannot "violate" (although you could commit crimes that might have consequences for your LPR status), and you generally don't hear "violate their visa" although it's true that a visa is related to and may restrict that work you can do in the country. Regardless, no allegations have been made that Öztürk violated anything laws or rules or did anything other than lend her name to speech in a newspaper. JohnHawkinson (talk) 22:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes thank you johnhawkinson. I do not know the terminology. Ozturk did not, to my knowledge, violate any laws or rules. Thank you to the clarification.Tzelofachad (talk) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

as always, based randall, at least for now. Tzelofachad (talk) 16:04, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Did you mean "biased"? Barmar (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Did you mean "biased towards due process?" Nyrrix (talk) 16:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

It's probably "based", as that's a term that can either be used in support or mockery of a philosophical position (because of Poe's Law, hard to know which in most cases, including here). It's more usually used in 4chan-like responses (and I doubt Randall would be considered "based" in those other places) than hereabouts, so perhaps it needs some clarification for those not (or not enough) in that sort of crame of mind. 141.101.99.94 17:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes I meant based. I know it is often used in a different space. I meant it in a [Satirical yet Agreeing while in a ironic mode of understanding that nothing is as it seems, but still definitely complimentary] mode. Basically, I agree with this and it is goodTzelofachad (talk) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, Randall Munroe clearly only cares about this one incident because he does not at all care about politics. He's definitely not using this as an illustrative case on the countless other identical incidents happening under the Trump administration. /s /s /s /s /s. ^Dr.Meepster (<chat> • <reply>) 16:53, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, Randall is currently calling out this one incident, and while he is obviously also disagreeing with many other incidents that have happened and will happen, he is not overgeneralising any specific criticism to every case. For instance, if he said "nobody who was deported has done anything wrong" i would disagree. He said "Ozturk did not do anything wrong" which i agree with. Sorry for the misunderstanding!Tzelofachad (talk) 15:25, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

I really hope this is one of those comics that does NOT stand the test of time. In other words, I hope the next generation of graduate students sees this and thinks "oh, that must've been written in 2025, we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore." Perhaps "hope" isn't the right word, it implies I have hope. Maybe "pray fervently" is the right phrase. Sigh. 198.41.227.72 16:30, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Sure ... "Oh, that was before third world war, we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore." -- Hkmaly (talk) 00:08, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

We can go back to considering how the Ph.D. became a participation trophy for the financial benefit of the awarding institution - and, in the sciences, a source of slave labor. 172.71.146.61 01:51, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

How do we edit the Categories? This should have category Politics. Barmar (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Usually, once at least one other category (not created from templates like {{comic}}) you can edit the page and see the other cat(s) at the bottom, beyond the comic-discussion template. Or edit the Transcript section (or any Trivia one, whatever's the last one) as that'll also have the tail-end of the page. So long as you know there's a category "Foo", you should be able to work out how to add "Category:Foo".

But don't add Foo if it doesn't exist, hoping that someone will tire of the redlink that's created. You may be wrong about it needing to exist, or miss the actual "Category:comics featuring Foo", and unless someone is feeling generous it's possible that your edit just gets reverted as not properly researched, or checked... I think there actually is a Politics category, by that name, but I'm trying to answer the general question, not yet going out there to look it up for certain (at which point, I may have just added it myself, making it useless to have explained how you could 'easily' do it... At least in this instance).

TL;DR;, though, look at the source (wiki-edit) of another comic that is about Politics and is so categorised. Go all the way to bottom, and you'll see which 'tag' you might want to put at the bottom of this one. Should be obvious. 141.101.99.94 17:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

I think I've added that category now 104.23.190.60 19:33, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm so tired of this administration :( Nyrrix (talk) 16:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Are you a citizen of the USA? If so, are you dead? In exile? In jail? Have your assets been seized? No to these? Then this is your administration and mine. Own it, or act. "Tired" doesn't cut it. 172.71.147.21 02:02, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Your point being...? GammaRaul (talk) 14:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

In fact, I think that "tired" is the exact word for it. Yes, it still may be comparatively better than other countries, but man, it is still nowhere near ideal, and I'm just TIRED of all this junk. Willintendo (talk) 14:13, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

The comic on mobile has the title text has a youtube video URL, and if you click on the comic on desktop version, it links to the youtube video of the arrest. This isn't reflected in the description currently. 172.70.126.121 16:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

The video URL is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyypeEEOklM and appears to be "CBS Boston [282K subscribers]" so probably legit? I will try to add the URL. --PRR (talk) 17:08, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

For the sake of consistency, I copy-pasted the "note" from 1723 into this comic. I also think we should have a category and perhaps a template to make adding notes like this easier and more uniform. 172.69.67.22 21:11, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

"I copy-pasted...." Thank you! --PRR (talk) 03:56, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Well, you can create it right now if you want! --FaviFake (talk) 22:08, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Is this the first with an out of site link? -- Commercialegg (talk) 18:00, 25 April 2025 (UTC) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

No this happens often. For instance this comic xkcd 1723. --Kynde (talk) 20:09, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Again, let's keep the explanation as neutral as possible. Facts only. Dogman15 (talk) 18:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Dunlap's Laws. 1. Fact is solidified opinion. 2. Facts may weaken under extreme heat and pressure. 3. Truth is elastic. (Arthur Block's "Murphy's Laws", 1977.) - "Facts are elite, facts are fungible, facts are false. And once nothing is true, anything can be true." Alan Burdick, Trump vs Science, New York Times Newsletter, 25 April 2025. 172.68.22.41 02:10, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

the problem is facts have a heavy anti trump bias. You CAN NOT state basic facts and not be against this regime 162.158.112.187 00:05, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I think it's important to emphasize that neutrality is simply a bias towards the truth rather than towards anything else. On a technical level, being unbiased precludes being neutral and being neutral precludes being unbiased, even if people mostly use the word "unbiased" in the same way as "neutral". In other words, bias isn't inherently a bad thing.172.71.102.219 00:48, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

"A bias towards the truth" is a bias towards what my homies and I declare to be correct - since 'absolute truth' does not exist, all 'truth' is relative, is what 'my homies and I declare to be correct'. This bias is not trivial, as you point out. Explanations on xkcd have striven to cover the "what, when, where, who, how" of the associated comic, and have striven to omit "what do we think about all this" except as is necessary to describe "what, when, where, who, how". The goal is laudable, but [ahem] difficult to manage when the topic is a lit match on a powder keg. 108.162.245.143 02:34, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

This "no absolute truth" false neutrality nonsense is a bad faith argument rooted in pop philosophy and obfuscating rhetoric intended to discredit the existence of inconvenient facts. There's a famous, if apocryphal, parable about the philosopher who tried to argue this sort of hogwash to the oncoming train that hit him. Gravity exists, the Earth is not flat, and the current administration is run by a bunch of idiotic narcissists actively harming people for personal profit. Scorpion451 (talk) 04:23, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

"To be properly neutral, you have to give all sides equal time and credence!" This turns out not to be the case. BunsenH (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The assertion that "absolute truth does not exist" is laughable for many reasons, but here's one that requires no external assumptions: it's a paradox, in much the same way as the infamous "This statement is false". For there to be no absolute truths, the absence of absolute truth would have to ITSELF not be an absolute truth, which would require that at least one absolute truth exists as an exception, but if that's the case then the premise that there are no absolute truths is false. To put it another way, if there were no absolute truths, then the absence of absolute truth would be an absolute truth, but if the absence of absolute truth is an absolute truth, then clearly absolute truth exists. Therefore, we can conclude absolute truth must exist, because if it didn't, that would be a paradox. --Superfluous (talk) 05:40, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

Of course, the bit I was correcting (with bad grammar, and lack of facts) got totally changed about before I tried to post it. "For instance citizens usually cannot be deported for any reason (only extradited, although the US typically refuses to comply with requests even from countries that freely extradite to it), and would instead be subject only to local legal penalties, but relatively minor allegations have resulted in visitors' extraditions." was what I wrote. Now, I think that was neutral enough, but it doesn't fit there now anyway. 172.70.58.113 22:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Ack, I think I'm the one who changed it before you could. My bad. Anyway, seconded. Opinion on the conflict in Gaza itself is not needed in this explanation; the edit that suggested that the student could be materially linked to Hamas by providing a link to an opinion poll of how Palestinians feel about the Oct 7 attacks is, in my opinion, very disingenuous, especially considering Ozturk is not Palestinian but Turkish, making the cited data even more blatantly irrelevant than it already would have been. Psycherprince (talk) 23:05, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

I was not saying she's 70% plus however many % lied likely to support Oct 7 but that Palestinian nationalism is pretty close to pro-terrorism (at least about halfway between not more pro-terrorist than it's not and 100% pro-terrorist) thus anything sympathetic to Palestinian nationalism helps pro-terrorists more than it helps other Palestinians. 172.71.194.145 (talk) 23:30, 28 April 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

This article could potentially be a reasonable place to try to establish a norm of separately including opposing sides of political topics (rather than the usual edit conflicts). 172.70.110.176 00:35, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Step 6: Try not to lose your visa when traveling or studying abroad by being a nuisance, since visas (in any country) can be denied or revoked for virtually any reason. 162.158.112.168 01:06, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Pray the leopards never eat your face. 172.69.138.29 (talk) 26 April 2025 (UTC) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

I'll bring decoy meat and try not to insult the cheetahs while visiting. 162.158.112.186 01:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Do nothing whatsoever controversial, because you don't know who will be running things within a few years? Or what liberties they may take with due process or law? Certainly one wouldn't want to run afoul of officials who are, say, flat-Earthers, Biblical literalists, or holders of unusual views regarding medical practise. BunsenH (talk) 03:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

There is no inalienable right to travel or study abroad, so doing anything "controversial" as a visitor definitely puts you at risk of "being shown the door", as Randall likes to put it. The van full of thugs was added just for drama, but underneath it's no different than being denied a visa for some social media post, which has been happening at least since Obama. 172.68.159.201 21:29, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

"...within a few years"? We have that today. These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For (talk) 23:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Hang on. Why does the explain xkcd:Editor FAQ say no references? We literally have reflist template and a bunch of pages with references. 42.book.addict^{Talk to me!} 04:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

I've never seen a page with references besides this one. I guess the template could be used for other things, but we don't use references in explanations. --FaviFake (talk) 09:32, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

They have been rare, they are (usually) eventually reworded to be 'inline onward references' (i.e. just 'standard' directly hyperlinked text, of whatever kind: [], [[]], {{w}}, etc), and I've done that myself on occasion There may even be some cases where the additional "ref"ness available from a ref-tag is more useful (e.g. multi-instance-same-ultimate-external-resource, or metadata).

It is very true that we highly prefer not-a-Ref links (which editors used to other wikis might not appreciate), I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the reflist template is now quite so "you should not be seeing this!" in nature. Without actually lookingnat "Pages which use the reflist template"/whatever (I presume you did this?) I'm not sure whether there are any that I would retain, but there may be one or two that I'd be in no hurry to convert to the typical/desirable links instead. 172.69.43.163 16:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. He will send in black ops instead." Good that I'm a German. Such stuff can't happen in Germany. Ever! ;-) 162.158.172.244 11:08, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Germany would never deny a visa to an outspoken nazi sympathizer? They couldn't even bring themselves to grant asylum to Snowden because some free speech is just too costly, but that's not the same as a visa, I guess. Maybe he can still get a tourist visa for a quick trip from Moscow to Berlin, but the next trip would be to extradition prison. 162.158.112.182 23:42, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

As it is now, the reason given for Özturk's detention is a half-truth. She was not detained because her visa was revoked. That would only prevent her from re-entering the US, if she left it. In contrast, Özturk's visa was revoked in secret, and she did not know about this until after she had been grabbed off the street and treated like a terrorist, or like a dissident in a South American regime. https://oiss.washu.edu/visa-status-stamps/ says: "The visa stamp is solely for entering the U.S. You will need it again only when you leave the U.S. and intend to re-enter using that visa. It’s sometimes called an “entry visa,” which is different from “status,” a concept explained below. The visa stamp can expire at any time after your entry to the U.S. without affecting your non-immigrant status. If you leave the U.S. and your visa has expired, you will need to apply for a new visa in order to re-enter the U.S." — "Non-immigrant status (also referred to as “status” or “immigration status”) is a non-physical legal condition, granted by an official of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) when you are admitted into the U.S. at a port of entry. Once you obtain non-immigrant status, you must maintain that status throughout your stay in the U.S. unless you legally change to another status." ExplainXKCD leaves unexplained whether Özturk's immigration status changed, and on what charges she was detained, or whether she was detained without a charge. It is unclear how her visa revocation is related to her arrest, as a visa revocation would not normally lead to an arrest (or does it?). If the ExplainXkCD's failure to explain the reason for Özturk's arrest is related to the US government's failure to explain the reason, then that should be made clear. Or simply say, "we're not explaining it because politics, go read Wikipedia and educate yourself", but then explainxkcd should not suggest that the reason is the visa revocation. 162.158.95.159 04:25, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I've added a brief note that ordinarily, visa revocation is not, in itself, grounds for detention. BunsenH (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Linked the Tufts Daily article she co-authored (which has been claimed to be related to her detention), but it would go better in the References section. Someone, please amend this? I'm too exhausted to do it properly right now. 162.158.6.3 21:52, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The claim of genocide in the explanation is in fact false. There is no genocide. However, as all sources here are biased, and some claim that there is a genocide, I think a better description would be something like "the Gaza war, which is sometimes considered a genocide". The article also misrepresented this - the only plausible thing was that Palestinians were a group that could theoretically be genocided. Jerdle (talk) 11:09, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm not responding to this person, as they are undoubtedly beyond reach, but I needed to make a comment to clarify that the view that Israel is committing genocide is widely accepted among organizations like Amnesty International and international scholars on genocide. This is not a partisan take but simply an observation. To say there is factually no genocide in Gaza is selfishly inserting your opinion without looking at the diplomatic landscape. This post is aimed at people who, like me, get incredibly frustrated when they have to read comments by genocide or holocaust deniers. 162.158.233.116 (talk) 12:47, 28 April 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Genocide has an actual definition. The war in Gaza does not meet it.Jerdle (talk) 13:12, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Fact check: many international scholars and experts do think the situation in Gaza meets the definition of a genocide, including the UN special committee and Amnesty International 172.71.95.115 13:28, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

See above (sorry, didn't notice your reply when I inserted my ECed one in again, but can't easily rearrange without rewriting things). 172.70.162.13 13:19, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

(I was responding to the above (no-indent) voice, but was Edit-Conflicted by the last message... Can't see what they should have signed with. // Ok, now I can, and done!) I would not have put the word "genocide" myself. Nor do I think it's, at this stage, a "war"... It's been a "I hit you 'cos you hit me" thing for so long that "conflict" is better, punctuated by the 'armed forces' of either(/all) sides mostly attacking the civilians on the opposing side with very few proper "army v. army" encounters (whatever either side says about their own intentions).

However, it is indeed very likely correct in to use "genocide", emotive and assumption-filled as it may be, by the original coining of the term. Targetting a national and/or ethnic group in order to perform acts resulting in "the disintegration of its political and social institutions, of its culture, language, national feelings, religion, and its economic existence".

Both Israeli and Palestinian actions have been made with the express purpose of making the opposing group "go away" in all those various ways, and right now it's the Israelis who are dismantling the Gazan nation, both violently and 'non-violently'. (And possibly the US, if you take POTUS's statements seriously of scattering all Gazans to free up the real-estate opportunities.) It isn't (necessarily) Aushwitz-level killing that group out of existence, but it qualifies to the definition of the word.

I would avoid "genocide" mostly because it gets interpreted as the full holocaust/death trope, but it's definitely going on (and, for some, it might even be considered that level). If we use it for everything that it could be used for, it might devalue its meaning. But the aforementioned definition is happening here, and probably well within the top 10% of all applicable current uses (if we're crass enough sort by "how genocidy" things are).

It's a pity that there aren't the nuances available and commonly understood to avoid this kind of conversation (OTOH, it'd make you wonder about the world if there was, indeed, a globally recognised "league table" of these things, and yet nobody then doing anything particularly good with this information). As I said, I wouldn't put the word there. But I certainly wouldn't remove it, either. 172.70.85.33 13:14, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

It is not because genocide is broadly misunderstood as a term that we should not use it when experts agree it is a correct time to use it. By using the term in its proper context, we are educating people on the term and making sure it is used correctly in the future. 172.71.95.115 13:28, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

If it's a genocide, it's the least effective genocide in the history of genocides as far as the population number is concerned. And since by the same definition the Israelis were genocided on October 7th, can't we just call it a "self-defense genocide" or "a genocide for a genocide"? 162.158.102.215 14:49, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Fact check: international experts have not said that Oct 7th qualifies as a genocide, and genocide is not just a matter of amount of deaths. Many scholars agree at this point that there's a concept of "cultural genocide" like forced relocations, where there might not be any deaths and it still constitutes a genocide. The UN report on genocide makes note of this, though not all member states agreed. 172.71.95.89 15:28, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading, https://xkcd.com/1731/ 172.70.58.148

Named fallacies are a tool to help you make your argument or notice the flaws in other's. You did step one and you think you identified a flaw in someone's post. Now state your argument. Posting a link to a page naming the fallacy does not make an argument. 172.71.95.130 18:57, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Cultural genocide give me a break. Evicting a people 70% of whom support the Oct 7 mini-Holocaust if you will is not genocide it's self-defense. Notice how the Israelis haven't even come anywhere near kicking all the mini-Holocaust supporters out (FINALLY some of the antisemites' reign of terror would end). Genos means race/tribe/peeps and cide means kill. No killing no genocide even if all 8 billion on Earth disagrees. If a hypothetical eviction of a Strip of 70% Oct 7 supporters would be genocide then even one suicide murder in a rage of Jew-hate would be more "genocidey" right? The Hamas of their day killed about half of all Jewish people, Israel's what a few % of the Strip according to Hamas who always exaggerates. A lot of the real number were Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc anyway. That's like 0.01X% the Arab population including Hamas, PIJ etc have some sense of scale (Oct 7 is dozens of simultaneous 9/11s per capita equivalent). The Strip net helps those terror bombers, human shields or forces others to (both war crimes), grows population 2% a year, they cause their own problems. 172.70.34.216 (talk) 22:35, 28 April 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

An attempted genocide is still a genocide. 162.158.112.187 21:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Are you serious? Israel has nuclear bombs. It's not Israel's fault the human shields are so brainwashed, kept there by Hamas or martyrlusted they don't leave when Israel phones then warning shots. They can't warn them forever, the building would just be stripped of valuables like weapons then they'd probably lock them up in there to maximize casualties and say we're giving you 72 virgins. Funny how Hamas forces women and children to be bombed not themselves. If the anti-Nazis of the world gave up Oct 7 do you think the neo-Nazis would stop? Of course not, the river to the sea would've run red with literally 10,000,000 gallons of Israeli blood! 162.158.78.140 00:15, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I was talking about Hamas. They sent their A-team (literally) but their genocide attempt ran out of steam as soon as the Israeli military decided to come back from their nap. 162.158.112.187 23:23, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I wish Randall would layoff the politics for a moment. Not because it isn't important or worth discussing, but xkcd is one of the few escapes for the hellhole that is the world and Id rather not be reminded of how everything sucks. Glad he's bringing awareness tho. Also, here's praying that the trolls don't descend -anon 172.69.70.173 11:55, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I know where you're coming from. I'd rather an entertaining comic, primarily. But on the "all it takes [...] is for good men to do nothing" basis, I'm glad he occasionally makes points like these. He's human^{[citation needed]} and we know he has Opinions. The occasional overtly political point (not even being sneaky about it, unlike some) is understandable and... I'd say "forgivable", but I personally don't see anything needing to be forgived.

Obviously, it could grate against the sensibilities of those who are politically opposed (even if intellectually in his typical audience type), but we all have to take the rough with the smooth. I know I'm fortunate, here, that I'm not too politically dissimilar in attitude (though different country, different personal concerns). There's some other creators where I can still appreciate them while clearly not exactly on my side of the political fence (with the redeeming feature that they may come to different conclusions, but at least they do so with internal logic, not just soak up a lazy mindset). And it would be boring never to be challenged like that.

Given the amount of commentable situations that politics has presented, a couple of political comics that happen to be inspired in quick succession isn't necessarily a sign of anything new. Same old Randall, and I can't see this completely turning off people who weren't already fully turn-offable before. 172.70.85.33 13:14, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I've been turned off before, but came back, so it's not black and white. 172.70.58.162

I agree. It would also calm me down a bit if occasionally he called out the excesses of his party too. 172.70.58.114 17:58, 28 April 2025

I'm sad the meaning isn't what I thought in between when I read the comic itself and when I read the title text. Initially I thought the path in red was an alternate path where the PhD candidate's research is some sort of "Stargate"/"Fringe" grade groundbreaking discovery that had to be "hushed up" and they were whisked off to a secret facility to advance their research. Then reality interfered and I realized my calendar had jumped back to 1984... 172.69.59.163 15:32, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Gross under-reaction usually leads to gross over-reaction. Give it a short while before assuming we are in 1984, k? Things will hopefully balance somewhere between openly, violently supporting terrorist groups, and deporting people for minimal evidence without due process. Best way to get there is for both sides to stop overplaying politics, letting their emotions become primary, and become more extreme against each other in a never ending arms race. 172.70.58.114 17:57, 28 April 2025

I mean, I am willing to give it a bit more time but I do think we are dangerously on the way there. They already track all of our phones and Internet traffic, and now they can just grab people for little reason....172.70.255.119 18:22, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Here's what I don't get. Why her? If I were an evil dictator hellbent on suppressing free speech, why would I start with a quiet PhD student whose only public role to play in anything political was co-writing an article that was criticizing her university president for not acting strongly enough in favor of a cause she supported? Why wouldn't I start with the more obvious inciters of opposition to my regime? It genuinely feels like we're not getting the full story. And perhaps we never will. MeZimm (talk) 21:14, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

The cause of Palestinian nationalism is bad. A group where 70% admit (how many don't admit?) they support Oct 7 and 84%! (91% in Gaza Strip!) admit they support the 2008 Jewish school massacre shouldn't have a state when far more deserving groups probably won't ever get one i.e. the Kurds. I bet she's WAAAAY less introverted than the imaginary her in your mind, probably not quiet at all. Perhaps they are just deporting all the publicly pro-Palestinian non-citizens? 172.70.34.216 (talk) 22:35, 28 April 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

I think you're making the mistake of assuming that logic has anything to do with any of this whatsoever.172.71.241.123 11:26, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

You start by "dealing with" the people that nobody really cares much about. Once everyone's used to that, you can move on to people who might, perhaps, have had a bit more support, but you've set up a precedent. And so on. BunsenH (talk) 23:35, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Are you serious? Like eleventy bazillion people care a lot about her. She's way down that list. If someone wanted to start a slippery slope wouldn't it be better to use a ton of resources to find the most evil undocumented guy in America they could find especially if there's one who raped, tortured and killed little girls and execute him by general anesthesia? Then after 250,000,000 iterations finally reaching "deporting some random nobody good person citizen for not voting for him". 172.68.245.222 00:45, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

After the fact, people are being made poster-children for the process (those few who have, if not squeaky-clean reputations, have "totally nowhere near as bad as child rapists" as their mere smudges. Someone who had entered the country illegally and doubtfully was accused of gang membership, but would have been living the American Dream as a working taxpayer and parent, if only these redeaming qualities weren't denied him. Someone else who was one among many of legitimate students (foreign and domestic), and whose 'crime' was no more than participating in First Amendment rights. Some other person who was actually attending an exam to show their commitment to become a fully legitimate citizen, for whom I've not discovered anything wrong other than they hadn't yet attained citizenship.

There are doubtless some multi-raping child-murderers in the portfolio of deportees(/-in-waiting), and very few people would complain too much about them (so long as it's not an extra-judicial process that leaves too many lingering doubts about their true villainy), but the 'wisdom' of ICE/the general process involved seems to have added people whose criminality is probably nearer zero than your average natural American citizen, just because they were so easy to find, had never tried to hide in any significant way (had even consciously registered to various official lists, which were probably scraped to find targets just such as them) and in the process spent time creating sympathetic figures that now are known about by gazillions of people - and just act as Kick The Dog examples.

All because the message comes down, from On High, that there need to be deportations, and quickly, however effective or proportional they may be. Some real villains, actual "active foreign gang-members" are probably keeping one or more steps away from the justice they do deserve because they're not tied down to a family, a college or even a bloomin' naturalisation process with the moral commitment to do the right thing (or as right a thing as they're ever being allowed to do, given their respective statuses).

There'll always be outliers in any such process (and, yes, outright liars). But, goddamit, in the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: "If you're going to do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way." (And, in the words of The Grail Knight: "You have chosen... poorly.") A mismanaged process that is clearly looking for results without sufficiently considering implications, saving on costs of time and money but with bad value of the final result. Some say they're following the "fascist playbook", but (if they are) they're not even doing that correctly. Not only should the concerned citizens from the 'left' of US politics (at best, centre-right in more traditional European terms - e.g.) be appalled by all this, but the actual 'right' and 'further-right' (so far round the horseshoe curve that they're in spitting distance of the communist totalitarian states that we know that some even seem to aspire to) should be finding fault with the whole debacle, as well. If you want my opinion as an onlooker from afar with living experience of a number of other countries under his belt (and a number of far more different and diverse governments in his home country). But is this the place to rehash this whole business??? 172.69.195.179 09:18, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Anyone who sympathizes with Palestinian nationalism more than Jewish nationalism is a useful idiot of the terrorists. Want to keep your partition don't support failed second Holocausts 1936, 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, (1982?), 2023 (etc? I don't know all the history). Especially if you're German I don't how you could support a Strip 91% of which admitted support for the Jewish school massacre. Imagine someone who's leader met Hitler, bets double or nothing their Holocaust of literal Holocaust victims will work then wants 4+ more Holocaust II doever bets then wants their original partition bet back while still terror bombing Jews. All cause a 2600+ year-persecuted people moved to Ottoman-occupied Israel and bought land from the landlords (mostly absentee ones living in Syria). Anyway if your slippery slope does happen most Americans would have enough warning to get out of dodge and even claim asylum in an industrialized country (one of our AmEnglish idioms from Dodge City, Kansas (a Wild West frontier village at phrase origin (1870s), near mainland USA's middle now)). Also regardless of POTUS try starting an Aryan- or Palestinian-American Nazi Party on student visa and see how long you'd stay here. The fact is non-citizens have higher moral standards to stay than citizens. If a serial killer spawns here we're stuck with him unless a country wants him for something or maybe he joins an invading army or something (probably 1863 was the last? And the pre-Nazis didn't stay independent). If a green card holder just got two doses of food stamps with fake names or something like that (I doubt that happens often) they could deport pre-2017 even though I think they might just temporarily ban you from food stamps if you're a citizen (no jail time?). It's rather hard to become US citizen cause there's no shortage of volunteers (apparently 22,200,000 in 2023) so they could be very very very picky if they want without even cutting net immigration (only 55,000 green card lottery applicants win and it costs Internet cafe time if you don't have at home and likely international postage for documents too (in most places those things are a lot bigger chunk of an average wage for what'd probably take like 404 annual applications to win) and $330 for a temporary visa if you win then hundreds or thousands of US$ or equivalent to fly here then $1440 within 30 days to adjust status to green card and it's illegal to work for the several months of living in the US before the card arrives in the mail, plus maybe a billion would apply if all that was free (many of the over 8 billion humans live on cents or a few bucks or less a day couldn't afford even 1 month of USA housing till they get paychecks) and high enough odds) 162.158.78.220 15:51, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

I really don't understand why advocacy for the nationalism that's the poster child of terrorism has spread so far from reasons like neo-Nazi/hates Jews, Muslim, Arab, trolling, psychopath, sadist, a few folks who think their history's similar to Palestinians' i.e. some of the Irish or some financial link with one or more of these or hanging around Pal nationalists too much. Like dude you're a fucking synagogue or church you accept a semi-historical canon that's mostly or 100% the Jewish one where the Jewish people are the protagonists of the Old T and identified with in some of the New you should be pro-Israel. Democrats were once a bit more anti-antisemite less pro-fedayeen too anti-antisemitism shouldn't be a Rep-Dem split. 162.158.154.170 16:22, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

A thing can be logical without even one of the >8,000,000,000 humans realizing. i.e. future math proofs. 104.23.190.68 20:08, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

I think the joke in the comic is that it doesn't take into account the Muslim concept of Dar al-Harb (which are lands that should be liberated from non-Muslim government). The entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict revolves solely around Dar al-Harb, and is actually a part of a wider Muslim-non-Muslim conflict. Muslims who consider Israel as Dar al-Harb (the exact definition is a matter of debate between various Islamic schools of thought) also consider the USA as Dar al-Harb, and so Rümeysa Öztürk clearly wants to free the USA from non-Muslim authority, and therefor it is reasonable to deport her. The joke is that we don't take any of this into account, and view this case as indicative of a change in the entire U.S. PhD timeline. Halil (talk) 22:54, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
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